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  #41  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:01 PM
janwhin janwhin is offline
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Interesting article in the Morpeth Herald of 28 January 1905 reporting on a lecture given at Amble by a Mr JT Fordy of Warkworth;
".....In 1765 the river changed her course to near the present outlet. Prior to that the river came more south and doubled back to the north and passed into the ocean at the grey stone of Helsay. Helsay Point ran out quite close to the brickyard........The river bed of the 19th Century was easily traced. There seemed evidence that the river formed a great marsh land designated the goatess.... Wild marsh abounded, and a portion of the river land near the Beal Bank still retain the name of Goose Island......Another gaunt spot was the Hangman's Acre, a small croft adjoining the new town lands or allotment field, through which was the road to the golf course and the beach. It was assumed that at some period the fisher folk and sailors had their habitations here, and their haven was immediately below, in the Valley of the Sand Hills......"
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  #42  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janwhin View Post
Before the river changed its course it was eroding itself southwards. I wonder if the "islands" appeared at various times as the remnants of higher ground were left as the river drowned the lower lying land?

Fascinating thread, I hope Hollydog returns unscathed and before dark
Yes that's it. On a bend in the river the outside of the loop is being eroded away, as that is where the water is fastest, and sediment is deposited on the inside of the bend where the slower water is, and it moves along like that.

It was probably likely that the river would have broken through at the thinnest point at Helsay creating an Ox-bow lake at Amble but the storm that night changed everything.
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  #43  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janwhin View Post
Interesting article in the Morpeth Herald of 28 January 1905 reporting on a lecture given at Amble by a Mr JT Fordy of Warkworth;
".....In 1765 the river changed her course to near the present outlet. Prior to that the river came more south and doubled back to the north and passed into the ocean at the grey stone of Helsay. Helsay Point ran out quite close to the brickyard........The river bed of the 19th Century was easily traced. There seemed evidence that the river formed a great marsh land designated the goatess.... Wild marsh abounded, and a portion of the river land near the Beal Bank still retain the name of Goose Island......Another gaunt spot was the Hangman's Acre, a small croft adjoining the new town lands or allotment field, through which was the road to the golf course and the beach. It was assumed that at some period the fisher folk and sailors had their habitations here, and their haven was immediately below, in the Valley of the Sand Hills......"

Leslie mentioned the New-Town fishermen having their boats on the Coquet. They must have been around the old river mouth. Just down the hill for the New Town folk.


I have not seen the Greystone of Helsay, but think it lines up with the straight boundary we have been discussing, on the other side of Helsay. It is shown on some maps, I'll see if I can find one.
I had heard recently that the stone had been removed but I cannot see why that would happen. I think is was enormous as well.
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  #44  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:20 PM
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Greystone of Helsay:
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  #45  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:38 PM
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Default New Town c 1610

Here is Warkworth New Town, marked in yellow. Hangman's Acre in pink. The old river mouth shown. That area marked as 'Newton Waste' would be the place for the fishing boats?
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  #46  
Old 13-10-2013, 04:55 PM
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Its ok I'm back. Great walk to Helsay Point from the new footbridge at the caravan park, keeping just below high tide line and above the mud! Dog didn't though, getting the hose out later!

Half-way on the left is, I presume the remains of a sluice gate? just across from the boundary stone hill
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  #47  
Old 13-10-2013, 05:07 PM
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Helsay Point is interesting. There is a double line of posts approx 4" square each, visibly extending for 30 metres in a roughly east west alignment.
Any ideas? I thought it could be to prevent the stream from the caravan site side cutting into the point at low water? Equally, they could be the base for a jetty, but the water is very shallow at this point even at high tide.
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  #48  
Old 13-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquet View Post
There is a modern marker / trig point on the crest of the dunes straight east of the stone one. A triangular plate welded on to a square section pole:


In the distance, by the gorse bushes is another identical marker, about 50 metres north of the boundary stone. I think they are not related to the boundary stone and are some kind of navigational markers? although the inland one surely cannot be seen from the sea?
Note the wooden pole in the distance - anyone know its origins? and don't say a tree!

By the way, I don't know how Coquet managed to find the boundary stone, it is well hidden in acres of thigh height grass in a very remote spot - well done, or did you have help apart from the map?
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Last edited by hollydog; 13-10-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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  #49  
Old 13-10-2013, 06:05 PM
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I get the feeling the masts are for speed trials of shipping? - I don't know where I got that idea from though.


Quote:
Helsay Point is interesting. There is a double line of posts approx 4" square each, visibly extending for 30 metres in a roughly east west alignment.
Any ideas? I thought it could be to prevent the stream from the caravan site side cutting into the point at low water? Equally, they could be the base for a jetty, but the water is very shallow at this point even at high tide.
Now they are a mystery. Never seen them close until now. Could be some sort of mooring/ quay for grain as Alan thinks?


Quote:
but the water is very shallow at this point even at high tide.
wonder if the sediment has built up over the years?
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  #50  
Old 13-10-2013, 08:12 PM
Alan J. Alan J. is offline
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Nice photo of my poles Holydog, they have obviously served some purpose in the past. They are visible from the Warkworth road at low tide.
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  #51  
Old 13-10-2013, 09:48 PM
janwhin janwhin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollydog View Post
In the distance, by the gorse bushes is another identical marker, about 50 metres north of the boundary stone. I think they are not related to the boundary stone and are some kind of navigational markers? although the inland one surely cannot be seen from the sea?
Note the wooden pole in the distance - anyone know its origins? and don't say a tree!
One of the maps on the Northumberland Communities site for Warkworth, 2nd edition 6" to 1 ml (1897) shows a flagstaff and then flagstaff and targets north of the boundary stone, part of the rifle ranges. The first edition (1860) shows Goose Island.
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  #52  
Old 13-10-2013, 11:01 PM
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Here are some 'Measured mile markers' (for measuring the speed of ships):

scroll down for the images.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/snippet/8651

I remember now that there were some tall ones at Blyth (or was it Newbiggin?). Don't know if they still exist.

If they are mile markers then there must be another pair a mile up or down the coast. (genius that I am )

they also have to have a 'V' structure on one post and an inverted 'V' on the other and when they come together you see an 'X', then you start your stopwatch

These could have fallen off the posts you have photographed? just one bit left?
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  #53  
Old 13-10-2013, 11:07 PM
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I suppose the Amble Shipyard would need somewhere to speed test their ships. The posts were possibly theirs? (If the mile marker theory holds any water that is )
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  #54  
Old 14-10-2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
Possibly a marker post used by salmon fishermen to line up where they set there T nets.
Northern Light may be right, I will have confirmation from a fisherman soon
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  #55  
Old 14-10-2013, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquet View Post
Looking on google maps I think now the Island was further down stream:

blue = boundary, red= modern weir, green = ye olde island.

image copyright Google 2013


Coquet - can you confirm the site of the boundary stone along your blue line, its just that your opening photo lines up with the next hill north? or maybe down to perspectives!
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  #56  
Old 14-10-2013, 08:43 AM
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If my memory serves me right, there is a simillar post just South of the Saltpans behind the cemetery. This would be about one mile down the coast from the ones we are talking about. An intresting twist though, the arms form a < rather than the V Coquet describes. Same effect though. I know the fishermen do use these posts as references, but it could be because they are just in a convenient spot rather than them being created for that purpous.
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  #57  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Coquet - can you confirm the site of the boundary stone along your blue line, its just that your opening photo lines up with the next hill north? or maybe down to perspectives!

I've moved the line Hollydog, I think you are correct.
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  #58  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:23 AM
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There were two large structures, one about the Sandy Bay area and one just North of Newbiggin and these were the measured nautical mile posts . I understood them to be for use in the speed trials of ships out from the Tyne shipyards on acceptance. I don't know if they are still there as we now have no shipyards.
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  #59  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
If my memory serves me right, there is a simillar post just South of the Saltpans behind the cemetery. This would be about one mile down the coast from the ones we are talking about. An intresting twist though, the arms form a < rather than the V Coquet describes. Same effect though. I know the fishermen do use these posts as references, but it could be because they are just in a convenient spot rather than them being created for that purpous.
I thought there was a set at about the saltpans but wasn't sure enough to mention it. Well spotted. the components of the "X" would still work set up like you describe.

I wonder if they belonged to the RAF for their boats - motor launch and target towing boats?
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  #60  
Old 19-10-2013, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquet View Post
I think the rest of the Amble township boundary stones are gone (opencast etc) - although there is another possible survivor on the east edge of Moorhouse farm.

Don't we have a member from Moorhouse - perhaps he/she could have a look?
the moor,
The boundary stone at the sewage works is still in place, It is on the north side of the (tank trap) ditch it is inscribed HT on one side and AT on the other side If you walked west from footpath through the wood at the works you should find it. I remember seeing one in the Moorhouse farm yard but can not find it now
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