Hello

Redsetter · #1 07-12-2015, 08:20 PM

Hello
Thank you for allowing me to join the Coquet and Coast forum.
I was recommended to join as I am trying to find out about my Dad's time in the army during WW2
We are from Liverpool. I have got his official records from the Army Records Office but they are very vague.
He was initially in Liverpool Kings 12th Regiment.

The records do say that he spent time in 1940 and 1941 in -
Ashington including Ashington Civil Hospital
Longhorsley
Gun'ton - I don't know what that might be
Belford
Broome Park

Could anybody please help me with any more information about any of the above places?
I would love to know exactly where he would have been, if any of the training sites are still there and if possible take photos to add to his records or to just find out more of where they were.

Thank you very much for reading my post

hollydog · #2 07-12-2015, 09:35 PM

Hi and welcome Redsetter. I know you now live in Reed Raah, perhaps some of us may be able to help identify the places your dad was stationed at locally.
Broome Park is the other side of Alnwick Moor near Bolton, and I know that the grounds of Belford Hall were used to billet troops as well. Could the other one be Felton ? Felton Park Hall had troops stationed there. Coquet can you help?

Redsetter · #3 08-12-2015, 07:43 AM

Thank you for your reply. It's a start for me. Brilliant

janwhin · #4 08-12-2015, 08:35 AM

Welcome to the site Redsetter and good luck with your research. Gun'ton could well be Gunnerton, a small village near Chollerton and Hexham. Apparently it was an army camp in WW2 so maybe your dad did some training there.

Coquet · #5 08-12-2015, 12:10 PM

Hi Redsetter, welcome to the forum, what does it say in his papers for the 1942 - 43 period? they converted to Light Anti-Aircraft Artillery in December 1941 (101 LAA Regiment, Royal Artillery). Did he remain with that unit and go to the Middle East?

I can add the 'Orders of Battle' for his earlier period in Northumberland. Unfortunately it does not give any location detail but you can see his higher formations and other units in his brigade.

Coquet · #6 08-12-2015, 12:16 PM

202nd INDEPENDENT INFANTRY BRIGADE (HOME)

20 October 1940 Formed for service in the United Kingdom by No 2 Infantry Training Group.

December 1941 Brigade ceased to function operationally on 1 December; Headquarters disbanded on 22 December.

Commanders
20 October 1940 Brig H. Pawle
20 May 1941 Brig G. F. Gough
11 November 1941 Lt-Col A. E. Belcher (acting)

Units
11 Kings 20.10.40 - 18.11.41
12 Kings 20.10.40 - 27. 5.41
11 Green Howards 20.10.40 - 26.11.41
7 E Lan R 20.10.40 - 26.11.41
9 Green Howards 14.11.41 - 30.11.41

Higher Formations served under
Northumbrian Area 20.10.40 - 11. 3.41
WO Control 1.12.41 - 21.12.41
Northumberland County Division 12. 3.41 - 30.11.41

Theatre
United Kingdom 20.10.40 - 21.12.41

Coquet · #7 08-12-2015, 12:24 PM

225th INDEPENDENT INFANTRY BRIGADE (HOME)

14 November 1940 Formed for service in the United Kingdom.
1 December 1941 Converted to 35th Army Tank Brigade

Commander
14 November 1940 Brig J. W. Pendlebury
17 November 1941 Lt-Col H. S. Crow (acting)

Units
10 King's Own 14.11.40 — 30.11.41
14 Kings 14.11.40 — 9. 2.41
9 Border 14.11.40 — 17.11.41
9 S Lan R 14.11.40-27. 5.41
12 Kings 28. 5.41 — 13.11.41
15 DLI 19.11.41 — 30.11.41
11 Kings 19.11.41 — 30.11.41

Higher Formations servers under
Western Comd 14.11.40 — 9. 2.41
54 Inf Division 10. 2.41— 11. 3.41
Northumberland County Division 12. 3.41— 30.11.41

Theatre
United Kingdom 14.11.40 — 30.11.41

Coquet · #8 08-12-2015, 12:28 PM

The trail then goes cold for a bit in the Orders of Battle - as you can see the 225th Brigade converted to Armoured RAC units but not the 12th - they became 101 LAA I believe.

We find them again in the Orders of Battle in the Middle East, 1943, 10th Armoured Div. (I've added that one below for completeness)

Coquet · #9 08-12-2015, 12:42 PM

10th ARMOURED DIVISION

1 August 1941 Formed in Palestine by designation and reorganization of 1st Cavalry Division. (1)
15 June 1944 Divisional Headquarters disbanded in Egypt.

GOC
1 August 1941 Maj-Gen C. G. W. Clark
26 June 1942 Maj-Gen A. H. Gatehouse (3)
18 December 1942 Maj-Gen C. W. Norman
12 January 1943 Maj-Gen H. L. Birks

Divisional Troops
RAC
1 HCR ( 9.10.41 - 13. 3.42 (14. 1.43 - 5.11.43
2 Derby Yeo 21. 8.42 - 10. 9.42
Royals 22. 9.42 - 31.10.42
7 H 5.11.43 - 25. 4.44

RE Fd Sqns
2 21.11.41 - 10. 6.43
3 22. 9.42 - 15. 5.44
622 11. 6.43 - 31. 5.44

Fd Pk Sqn
141 20.11.41 - 1. 4.44 Br Tp
6 20.11.43 - 1.4.44
Sigs
10 Armd Div 1. 8.41 - 14. 6.44

RA
RHA
1 13. 9.42 - 27. 5.43 & 13.11.43 - 25. 4.44
14 3. 6.43 - 8.11.43
104 27. 9.42 - 3. 5.44

Fd Regt
98 19. 9.42 - 29.12.42

Atk Regts
84 13. 9.42 - 20. 5.44

LAA Regts
53 2. 9.42 - 2.11.42
101 11.10.43 - 30. 4.44

Brigades
8 Arend Bde 1. 8.41 - 16. 2.42, 27. 3.42 - 30. 6.42, 17. 7.42 - 21.11.42
9 Arend Bde 9.10.41 - 25. 3.42 , 14.11.42 - 27. 5.43
7 Arend Bde 3. 6.43 - 11. 4.44
23 Arma Bde 1. 6.44 - 14. 6.44
7 Mot Bde 12. 9.42 - 23. 9.42
133 Lor Inf Bde 29. 9.42 - 25.11.42
201 Gds Mot Bde 9. 1.43 - 1. 2.43

Higher Formations served under
HQ Brit Forces P & TJ 1. 8.41 — 31.10.41
GHQ MEF 22.11.41 — 18. 6.42
8 Army 29. 6.42 — 30. 6.42
HQ BTE 16. 7.42 — 17. 8.42
13 Corps 27. 8.42 — 14. 9.42
30 Corps 1.11.42 — 6.11.42
HQ BTE 22.11.42 — 31.12.42
9 Army 1. 3.43 — 2.10.43
HQ BIE 1. 3.44 — 18. 6.44

9 Army 1.11.41 - 21.11.41
30 Corps 19. 6.42 - 29. 6.42
10 Corps 30. 6.42 - 16. 7.42
8 Army 18. 8.42 - 26. 8.42
10 Corps 14. 9.42 - 1.11.42
10 Corps 6.11.42 - 21.11.42
13 Corps 1. 1.43 - 1.3.43
GHQ MEF 3.10.43 - 28. 2.44

Theatres
Palestine 1. 8.41 — 29. 4.42
Egypt 30. 4.42 - 21.12.42
Palestine 1. 1.43 — 11. 1.43
Syria 12. 1.43 - 26. 9.43
Egypt 27. 9.43 — 18. 6.44

Battles
1942 30 August — 7 September Alam el Halfa, and 23 October — 4 November El Alamein

Coquet · #10 08-12-2015, 01:04 PM

Back to the Northumberland period, this is the structure of the 'Northumberland County Division', three brigades, your ancestor serving in two of them:

NORTHUMBERLAND COUNTY DIVISION

24 February 1941 Divisional Headquarters formed.
December 1941 Division ceased to function on 1 December, Headquarters disbanded 21 December.

GOC
24 February 1941 Maj-Gen R. C. Money

Brigades
202 Indep Inf Bde (Home) 12. 3.41 - 30.11.41
216 Indep Inf Bde (Home) 12. 3.41 - 30.11.41
225 Indep Inf Bde (Home) 12. 3.41 - 30.11.41

Higher formations served under
10 Corps 24. 2.41 - 9. 4.41
9 Corps 10. 4.41 - 30.11.41
WO Control 1.12.41 - 20.12.41

Theatre
United Kingdom 24. 2.41 - 20.12.41

Coquet · #11 08-12-2015, 01:11 PM

I know the above doesn't help directly with the finer 'location' search, but if your searches come up blank with the 12th Kings, searching locations and deployments of the Brigades instead might be helpful?

Coquet · #12 08-12-2015, 01:16 PM

Diaries do exist for the two brigade HQs:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ails/r/C787111

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ails/r/C787134

not digitised, so a trip to the National Archives.

hollydog · #13 08-12-2015, 05:07 PM

Redsetter, Where did he serve after Northumberland, I know you said he didn't want to talk about it, did he go to North Africa and face Rommel ?

Redsetter · #14 08-12-2015, 06:11 PM

Thank you for all the information you have sent so far.
Amazing !
Thank you

Coquet · #15 15-12-2015, 09:28 PM

My sincere apologies Redsetter, I have now received the scans you sent.

I've been having problems with bt email for a few weeks, and got 86 emails in a one-er from my abcutter address today.

Anyway the docs -
The redacted part is almost certainly him being subject to Field punishment No1 for some misdemeanor - exceeding his leave pass by the look of the sequence of events!
Don't know why the MOD bothered with the redaction, but they helped you out by leaving the No1 reference at the front! (probably deliberate)

He did stick with the unit during the conversion to 101 LAA Rgt RA and was in 334 Battery, one of three batteries that composed 101 LAA.