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  #21  
Old 17-11-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by janwhin View Post
I'm not sure it is the same man. I think the police assault took place at Choppington/Guide Post and there is a death notice of 1908 for a Thomas Craig husband of Margaret at Choppington, aged 70.

A birth of about 1840 would mean he would have been about 40 in the Zulu War and 50? for the first Boer.
That would be too old. The Zulu dates were 1877-1879, the 1st Boer War 1880-81. So this 70 year old (1908) is unlikely to be the Thomas in the 1890 fracas.

[on the other hand, the incarcerated Thomas Craig with a birth year of 1859 is a perfect age for a Zulu war campaigner. ]
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  #22  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:13 PM
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In that case, the 70 year old would have been about 40 for those wars. Is that too old?
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  #23  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:22 PM
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The couple I was looking at is below as per the Find my past site. They have a transcription error for her age, 29 recorded but actual entry is 39.

the address here is: 7, New Moor, Bothal Demesne, Ashington.

The birth years for these two match the Togston couple?

Of course there is no guarantee this is the gentleman in the 1890 newspaper report.

1891 census:
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  #24  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:26 PM
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In that case, the 70 year old would have been about 40 for those wars. Is that too old?
Not necessarily I have to say as 25 years service 'with the colours' is occasionally encountered, I just feel the chances are reducing with increasing age.
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  #25  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:32 PM
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You're right, too little cross referencing of facts for this to fly I think Jahnwin. Perhaps if I can find the newspaper report for the 1899/1900 police assault we might be able to have a yey or ney.
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  #26  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:39 PM
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There is a problem I see with Margaret's age, but the Manslaughter newspaper story says "about 52"
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  #27  
Old 17-11-2013, 04:45 PM
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I can't find Margaret Craig in the death indexes.

[edit: have found a Margaret Craigs 52 recorded for Alnwick, 1st Quarter 1901, I assume this is her?)


If that is her, and they have her name wrong, what are the chances of recording her age correctly?
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  #28  
Old 17-11-2013, 05:20 PM
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On the Zulu war front the medal roll for the 94th Foot for 1879 service has two Thomas Craig's listed

64B/849 Thomas Craig

64B/1818 Thomas Craig


With the Childers/Cardwell reforms (1881) the 94th Foot became a battalion of the Connaught Rangers.

Regimental District: County Galway, County Leitrim, County Mayo and County Roscommon.
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  #29  
Old 17-11-2013, 06:01 PM
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This is all very confusing I've always assumed that the Bothal couple in the 1891 census are the ones we want. I think your death registration is the right entry and certainly the burial register has her as "Craig" aged 52.

I've been looking at my 1908 deceased Thomas Craig. He is a Wooler man by birth and a coal miner. In 1871 the family are in Rutters Row, Choppington. In the Morpeth Herald report of the police assault, Mrs Craig mentions that she had gone to Rutters public house to berate the publican about giving her husband drink, but that is 1890. In 1881 they are in Stakeford and in 1891 Choppington Colliery.

Wooler Thomas Craig has children who don't feature in the assault case and he's been having them in Choppington in 1874, 1879 and 1883. Could he fit in a couple of wars as well?
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  #30  
Old 17-11-2013, 06:35 PM
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It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

Could be the Wooler man, 94th foot was classed as a Lowland Scottish Regiment, could have drawn a few in from across the English border, although trying to assign geographical significance to members of regiments is risky, it's loose at the best of times, except perhaps the pals battalions and pre war territorials for the great war.

I still feel age is against the older man, and even if a long service chap he would be more sensible wouldn't he?


You never know, some info might come along in time to help us. fingers crossed.
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  #31  
Old 18-11-2013, 12:49 PM
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Well here it is, a full report of the trial in the Shields Gazette of 23 February. One of the witnesses was being cross examined; "He did not know that Craig had served in the Zulu War and the Boer campaign of 1881 and had a severe time of it. He had heard him say he had been a soldier, but did not recollect him mentioning that. He had heard of Craig having brought an action against
a policeman for hitting him on the head with a baton.......Mrs Craig was an exceptionally stout woman. She was so stout that she could not stoop to clean up, and witness was aware that prisoner was in the habit of doing the housework for her.......So far as he saw of him he was always a quiet respectable man.....John Willis, a brother in law of the prisoner... He stated that the accused was of a quiet disposition. His only failing was the drink......"
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  #32  
Old 18-11-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
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Well here it is, a full report of the trial in the Shields Gazette of 23 February. One of the witnesses was being cross examined; "He did not know that Craig had served in the Zulu War and the Boer campaign of 1881 and had a severe time of it. He had heard him say he had been a soldier, but did not recollect him mentioning that. He had heard of Craig having brought an action against
a policeman for hitting him on the head with a baton.......Mrs Craig was an exceptionally stout woman. She was so stout that she could not stoop to clean up, and witness was aware that prisoner was in the habit of doing the housework for her.......So far as he saw of him he was always a quiet respectable man.....John Willis, a brother in law of the prisoner... He stated that the accused was of a quiet disposition. His only failing was the drink......"
Is this the 1901 murder trial?
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  #33  
Old 18-11-2013, 08:21 PM
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Yes it is, newspaper report of 23 February 1901.
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  #34  
Old 19-11-2013, 09:44 AM
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Fantastic find Janwhin!

Now a set of army service papers exists for 1818 Craig, but I feel this is not our man. (I could be wrong). 1818 was born close to where Craig was born; (as per the 1911 census if that is the right man) and in 1858. His habits are described as 'temperate', which is a problem!

1818 served Zulu and 1st Boer, but no wounds or injuries recorded on his papers.
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  #35  
Old 19-11-2013, 09:51 AM
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Default Army Papers

just out of interest Janwhin or anyone with a subscription, if you are already logged in to FMP, does this link take you straight to the document?

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-ser...fnbr=972585106

if not perhaps we can link to the summary page:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-ser...fnbr=972585106
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  #36  
Old 19-11-2013, 09:57 AM
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1818 Craig was born in Cootehill Co. Cavan. Craig in Prison in 1911 was born in Newbliss Co. Monaghan.

this is how far apart they are: 14 mins drive.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr...=h&mra=ls&z=11
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  #37  
Old 19-11-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquet View Post
just out of interest Janwhin or anyone with a subscription, if you are already logged in to FMP, does this link take you straight to the document?

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-ser...fnbr=972585106

if not perhaps we can link to the summary page:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/army-ser...fnbr=972585106
The second link dropped me straight into the image Coquet. With regard to him being a temperate man, does that mean he didn't drink or he was of an even temperament. It could fit, if its the latter, as witnesses suggest he was unless he had a drink
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  #38  
Old 19-11-2013, 11:26 AM
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I notice he did desert while in South Africa in 1880, seems to be about a month and he had about three weeks in hospital in 1883, at Dover I think. Can't make out what it was for but seemed to involve sulphur, so I don't think I'll go there.

The defence in his trial only said that he'd had a very hard time of it.

It seems to me to be too much of a coincidence for the army documents not to be about him. He was only released from the reserve in 1890 and is on the 1891 census in Northumberland. His sister is of course in Bothal Demesne in 1891(Mrs Willis). They seem to have come from Ireland between 1882 and 1889.

Last edited by janwhin; 19-11-2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: update of information
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  #39  
Old 19-11-2013, 12:12 PM
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The medical condition I think is "Itch" = Scabies.

I'm sure when the army refers to 'habits' it is alcohol they are talking about - it was a massive problem
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  #40  
Old 19-11-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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It seems to me to be too much of a coincidence for the army documents not to be about him. He was only released from the reserve in 1890 and is on the 1891 census in Northumberland. His sister is of course in Bothal Demesne in 1891(Mrs Willis). They seem to have come from Ireland between 1882 and 1889.
The fact that they have not recorded his marriage on his service papers is another problem for me, unless he married between his discharge from the army reserve and our first reference to him being married, which is a short space of time.
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