Mystery History Photo.
Ok....so what is historically important about this photo then? :)
http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...t_artifact.jpg |
Well, it's a sunny day in Warkworth :D The old course of the Coquet but what is that lump of thingy....is it a timber :confused:
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Assuming the block of wood is a red herring?! It is an old sand pit for the local builders (J G Green being one), probably something to do with manufacturing the concrete blocks from ww11 that are still on the beaches?
Speaking of which, the line of blocks visible now were originally the second line on top of the dunes at Warkworth which were too awkward to remove after the war unlike the first line down on the beach. Erosion has done the rest. More clues please |
more clues.
The block of wood is in fact sandstone. It has an east- west groove in the top but I'm not sure if that's intentional! There's a lot more of this stone disappearing down into the sand dune. http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag..._warkworth.jpg |
I think it's the boundary stone marking the extent of Amble township. Amble to the South and Birling to the North. Could explain the East/ West groove along the stone.
It's a guess anyway! |
You've got it!
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you can see it marked on this map, on the corner of Lady Newburgh's land.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/009164FS.htm but the $64,000 question is how old is it? (I don't know) |
Well, not many people know that :) There's some smarty pants around!
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I think the marker is very old indeed! Had a look on www.pastscape.org.uk and did a location search. The number of the momument on that site is 7852.
It is recorded on a boundary survey as far back as 1563. "... from Spittell dyke downe Howmers to the Salter Bridge (Northum 35 SE), down the burne to the sea along the lowe water marke to Cokette Water and over the water to Beaken Hill where standeth a stone which is a march betwixte Ambelland Birlinge then westward up the Cokette to Helsay Cragge" (Greystone of Helsay name centred NU 25770546). (The stone still remains on Beakon Hill). The source for this information is Northum. County History 5, 1899, p 197 Field investigators comments from a 1954 survey read "At NU 25990564 and approx 120.0m north west of the hill is a stone demancating the boundary between Amble and Birling Parishes. It is an uninscribed rough dressed stone, square in section with 0.3m of its height above ground level. This is probably the standing stone referred to in the 1563 boundary survey" Sounds like the one in the picture! |
Unbelievable.... you can read the original History of Northumberland County Volume 5 1899 online! It's been scanned at archive.org. Here is the link http://archive.org/stream/historyofn...e/196/mode/2up
You can even download the whole thing as a pdf if you want! |
It is unbelievable, amazing that the dunes have not swallowed it up, great find though.
On Coquet's map the course of the Coquet in Amble is interesting, especially the railway, presumably on tressles to the north pier. The river was much narrower and shallower pre-drdging, especially at low water and much closer to the north side at the crossing point. Visions of a long bridge over the current river are wide of the mark when picturing what it must have looked like. A bit like the mouth of the Aln is now? |
Lots of interesting things on the map. The other end of the railway appears to be on the rocks below where Cliff House would be built.
The course of the river goes into the little shore, up Ladbrook St. and along Newborough St. Runciman Way and Broomhill St. must have been built on reclaimed ground. |
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That's fascinating, the boundary stone would be the oldest object in the Amble township apart from the ruins behind High Street? (although Hollydog mentioned in another thread the ploughing patterns on or near the industrial estate land - those would also be earlier that 1563) Quote:
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I've noticed the rail track below high water in front of Cliff house - it seems bizarre but there must have been good reason for it. |
I think the rest of the Amble township boundary stones are gone (opencast etc) - although there is another possible survivor on the east edge of Moorhouse farm.
Don't we have a member from Moorhouse - perhaps he/she could have a look? |
Boundary Stones at the end of Percy Drive
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I agree Coquet, I have spent far too long looking at old maps too!
However, sometimes it does pay off. I spotted those two (possibly three) stones at the end of Percy Drive. If you look at the map, it looks like the two to the South may be outside the water treatment plant. The northern most one looks like it may just be inside the plant fence. Hard to tell. Would be very interesting to see if any of them are still there. |
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They must have still worked the quarry from the land side but dropped the blocks over onto the tracks with cranes? Here are some blocks on the North Side, probably from that quarry. The top layer is Whinstone but the lower visible four layers are typical Amble sandstone. The Whinstone could be from Acklington (the Dyke) or there is another old quarry near Guyzance for this type of stone, or even the Craster area. These are big heavy blocks! I did measure them the day I took the photo, and worked out the weights from the density of Basalt (Whinstone) and Sandstone, but I've lost my notes on that, so "bloody heavy" will just have to do. :) http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/north_side.jpg |
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here's that cluster of four on the 1950s map: |
I wonder if there was a reason why the Radcliffe and Hauxley waggonways were put right up against the boundary stones? or just coincidence?
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The boundary stone on the north side dunes has a wood pole and what looks like a navigational marker for company nearby. Can anyone elaborate on the reasons for and origins of these?
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Possibly a marker post used by salmon fishermen to line up where they set there T nets.
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There is a modern marker / trig point on the crest of the dunes straight east of the stone one. A triangular plate welded on to a square section pole:
http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...dry_stone4.jpg |
Here's that boundary shown as a nice strait line on an early 17 century map [circa 1610?]. Naturally before the river changed course.
http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...dry_stone9.jpg There is a mysterious island in the river over the other side of the meander loop? |
Some 'Bounder' markers are shown on the old map west of Warkworth, But I see our 'bounder' is not shown. Could just have been omitted or perhaps it was not there in c1610.
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On the old map the fields on the west, north of Gloster Hill are called "Sault Hawgh" I thought this would be some reference again to salt, but when you google about and discover what these words mean, one old French, the other old English, it could be "Valley Rapids" or similar.
We could discuss the place names on that map 'til doomsday. :) Haugh or Hawgh = a low-lying often alluvial riverside meadow, or a valley Sault = A waterfall or rapids. |
Yep, that is the metal trig I saw last week.It is rapidly disappearing, I have seen it a lot more exposed in the past - at least eight foot of it. There is another metal trig on the landward side near the road I believe. I am going to go back this afternoon with the dog and and your maps and see where things are in relation to one another. The wooden pole?
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There is a mysterious island in the river over the other side of the meander loop?[/QUOTE]
Is that just downstream from the current waterfall? Without seeing the rest of the map it is difficult to pin point! |
You can guess Thistly Hill :)
Thistly = filled with or having many thistles. not a word we use a lot? success of Roundup? thistly problem? |
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I'm sure it will be. Any trace of that left hollydog? I'll have to have a look this week sometime. Quote:
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Looking on google maps I think now the Island was further down stream:
blue = boundary, red= modern weir, green = ye olde island. image copyright Google 2013 http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...ry_stone10.jpg |
Look like the 'Thistly Hill' survives as the very tip of Helsay. Logical I suppose.
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I'm looking at the field boundaries, there are some very similar - straight across on Helsay Point looks good and the outline of the eroded Helsay Point is on the photo. Is it possible to superimpose the maps and google earth?
Thistly Hill possibly went when the river was straightened and deepened for the harbour C19th ? There is evidence of this directly opposite the Braid boat clubs with the wooden shoring holding back the mud flats thus speeding the river up |
Have either of you noticed, at the point of Helsay, at low tide, there are what seem to be the remains of some sort of a base of a pier. These are short stumps, set in a regular pattern as though there may have been a jetty there at some time. It could possibly tie in with the shipment of corn etc,
which was carried out there as previously covered in other posts. |
Yes I've seen those posts. Must have been some structure there at one time.
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Yes Alan, I have noticed them, I canoed over this summer and had a closer look at the ones around the base of Helsay Point. They seem quite small and I assumed they were there as erosion protection or tide flow diversion as there seems to be an ongoing erosion to the point itself (there is no rock to be seen, Coquet correct me - is it alluvial deposit?). I assumed the wood posts were once at the very base of the point but are now about 20 metres from it as the point has eroded.
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Going with camera now to beach to have a look, will post if I don't get stuck in the mud!
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Remember this 1838 map? We will have to get out with the camera and photograph these wood structures. I was convinced that the remains of the staiths on the braid on this map are still there but now sit on the other side of the river to the projected path shown. The Braid is the remains of the 'Salt Goats' on the 1610 map? and another island? that one is probably closer to the weir? http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...e_harbour4.jpg |
Before the river changed its course it was eroding itself southwards. I wonder if the "islands" appeared at various times as the remnants of higher ground were left as the river drowned the lower lying land?
Fascinating thread, I hope Hollydog returns unscathed and before dark :) |
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(map: yellow = alluvium, blue = boulder clay) Also interesting is the pre-Glacial theory of the local river drainage. Didn't reach the coast here at all, but at Chevington. There is a hidden valley there filled with boulder clay, only appropriate for the pre glacial Coquet. Quote:
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