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-   -   Butts at Warkworth (https://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/amble-northumberland/showthread.php?t=661)

Coquet 10-12-2017 06:53 PM

Butts at Warkworth
 
A fairly common card from the Monarch series of the Butts at Warkworth.
Noticed the tipping of material, rubbish by the look of it, on the river bank.
That area of river bank is much wider now? full of old bottles? :)


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...-warkworth.jpg


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...arkworth-2.jpg

janwhin 11-12-2017 09:23 AM

Trying to get my bearings on these Coquet. So I'm looking at the road before it turns up past the Sun? The houses in the back are running down Castle Hill with the burgage plots behind?

Coquet 11-12-2017 03:29 PM

Yes that's the place. Brown's Green's yard is absent just a stand of trees on the left. (now new houses)

think the photographer must be about here:


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-helsay.jpg

Alan J. 11-12-2017 03:42 PM

Greens Yard Coquet, they were established in the 1700's but not much sign of the yard as we knew it.

Coquet 11-12-2017 05:35 PM

Yes memory 'colour' failure there. (now corrected). Wow, That's an old company, and not that long gone?. They have been mentioned a few times in newspaper extracts on here I think.

Coquet 31-12-2017 03:02 PM

I guess this one is a bit further along. Church in the middle I think.
Wonder if there are one or two more old cards to get us up to the bridge?

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-2.jpg

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-3.jpg

hollydog 31-12-2017 06:16 PM

The house in the gap behind the church was badly damaged by a bomb in WW2.
Looking at NE war diary, the likely date was also quite a lively night round here,
Saturday, 10th/Sunday, 11th August 1940 N343

02.00.. Northumberland.. One HE on Warkworth School. Two HEs 140 yards east of Warkworth Bridge.

Northumberland.. Fifteen HEs in fields between Togston Hall and Gilden Bridge.

Northumberland.. Two HEs at Helsey Point, north of Alnwick.

Morph 31-12-2017 06:43 PM

Does anyone know if the wall running along the river at the top of the bank was removed at some point and why? It looks like it is in the same place as the new flood defence which they had to build, presumably because the earlier wall was removed! That's progress.

hollydog 31-12-2017 07:37 PM

That part of wall in the enlarged photo especially is slightly higher than the rest of the Butts, the church and houses towards the bridge didn't flood in 2008. Presumably that was the reason it was taken away and a car park built infront of the church etc a long time ago. There is no wall in the photo at the start of the thread and that area beneath the Sun Hotel bore the brunt of the flooding in 2008.

Coquet 01-01-2018 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollydog (Post 7177)
The house in the gap behind the church was badly damaged by a bomb in WW2.
Looking at NE war diary, the likely date was also quite a lively night round here,
Saturday, 10th/Sunday, 11th August 1940 N343

02.00.. Northumberland.. One HE on Warkworth School. Two HEs 140 yards east of Warkworth Bridge.

Northumberland.. Fifteen HEs in fields between Togston Hall and Gilden Bridge.

Northumberland.. Two HEs at Helsey Point, north of Alnwick.

I wonder if that was the same same time as the bombs that landed in the estuary / Helsay? Mentioned on here previously at some time but I can't find it.

Coquet 01-01-2018 03:45 PM

here's the image series completed 'til we find the old pictures.:D Had a walk along there today. Just needed a chainsaw to improve the view.


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-3a.jpg


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-4.jpg

hollydog 01-01-2018 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coquet (Post 7180)
I wonder if that was the same same time as the bombs that landed in the estuary / Helsay? Mentioned on here previously at some time but I can't find it.

In the extrract quoted earlier -

Northumberland.. Two HEs at Helsey Point, north of Alnwick,

I wonder if the the north of Alnwick should be Amble, I only know the one Helsay Point !

Coquet 01-01-2018 05:36 PM

yes same:

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/ambl...read.php?t=324

Coquet 01-01-2018 05:42 PM

You could draw now a line on the map between the house at the Butts and the riverbank at Helsay and go hunting UXBs. :eek:

Coquet 01-01-2018 08:20 PM

Any whoo.. after taking those photos today I spun around 180° and photographed the field opposite, telling the daughter 'this is the Warkworth Hangman's Acre' . But.. looking at the map its actually the small field next to it.
So we don't have a photo of Hangman's Acre.

Were people actually hung up there or is it just a name? :)


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...gmans-acre.jpg

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...s-acre-map.jpg

jumpy shore 02-01-2018 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coquet (Post 7187)
Any whoo.. after taking those photos today I spun around 180° and photographed the field opposite, telling the daughter 'this is the Warkworth Hangman's Acre' . But.. looking at the map its actually the small field next to it.
So we don't have a photo of Hangman's Acre.

Were people actually hung up there or is it just a name? :)


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...gmans-acre.jpg

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...s-acre-map.jpg

Or could it be the acre belonging to the hangman....?

Coquet 03-01-2018 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpy shore (Post 7190)
Or could it be the acre belonging to the hangman....?

I can't find any reference to it in Hodgson's. On the 1897 map the marked antiquities for Warkworth are:

Moat
Keep
Castle
Chantry (site of)
Bridge
Tower (at bridge)
Hangman's Acre

All straightforward but the last?

The medieval village 'Newtown' was close, at the other side of the beach road.

janwhin 03-01-2018 12:44 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's another couple of old postcards for the set!

Coquet 03-01-2018 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janwhin (Post 7192)
Here's another couple of old postcards for the set!

nice. :)

hollydog 03-01-2018 06:47 PM

Interesting how low the water is at the Stanners. The weir along the main road must hold back water that far up the river as it isn't as shallow as that at low tide now

jumpy shore 03-01-2018 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coquet (Post 7191)
I can't find any reference to it in Hodgson's. On the 1897 map the marked antiquities for Warkworth are:

Moat
Keep
Castle
Chantry (site of)
Bridge
Tower (at bridge)
Hangman's Acre

All straightforward but the last?

The medieval village 'Newtown' was close, at the other side of the beach road.

I can't find any reference to hangings or a hangman either, maybe it was just standard practice for every castle to have one? If there were hangings wouldn't that location be a bit off the beaten track to serve as a deterrent? Just off main road near the castle would nave been better assuming of course the road from the old coquet bridge follows todays path? The footpath along the back burgage plots exiting at the base of the keep at the Sun Inn seems more direct.
I played football on the adjacent pitch in the 70's and that end of the field was know as the 'Helsay End'. It was considered as the home end as we would try kick up the hill in the first half. I wasn't aware of the Hangmans reference in those days maybe there are shades of 'Newcastles Gallowgate' with an adjacent football pitch or am I day dreaming of what might have been!

Coquet 03-01-2018 07:35 PM

Hodgson's image of the bridge is a nice one, shot from the north side of the river as well:


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...-bridge-18.jpg

Coquet 03-01-2018 07:49 PM

Hodgson does briefly mention Hangman's acre.

There is and old close called the 'Tenterheugh' at the west end of the New-town. Most of it is now devoted to the new burial ground or extension of the churchyard. Another close near by, which also belonged to the lord in severalty, has been known since the year 1485 by the name of 'Hangman's acre'...

In the Birling section of his book he records in a list of (year 1702) Birling 'Tenants at Will'- Edward Bell and Thomas Smyth, with Tenterhaugh and Hangman's acre.
In that list only these men have the holding identified, I assume because it is in Warkworth township and in addition to their land in Birling.

leslie 03-01-2018 07:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hangman's Acre . was a plot of land awarded to the Lords Hangman for agriculture use as part retainer for his duties.. Warkworth Castle was from early middle ages the main residence of the Lords of Warkworth later the Percys. They would retain a hangman. Any Executions would possibly be carried out on the Market Square or outside Castle. I have never come across a mention of a hangman ore Executions in any books . but I would think any carried out would be recorded in the Parrish(Church) records. Warkworth History Society may have info? The Hangman's Acre falls in to the Hermitage Group of Farms leased by Castle to local farmer.. Not sure if the Hangman had a home on Acre. but Birling Newtown North of River is oldest part of Warkworth. [ATTACH]Attachment 752[/ATTACH] single click to enlarge map.

Coquet 03-01-2018 08:05 PM

This is Hodgson's photo of the other end of the Butts, with the new houses in front/east of the castle still many decades away, and no builder's yard.

[nearly got a full set of images, should have put them up in order]


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/imag...bend-river.jpg

Coquet 03-01-2018 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leslie (Post 7198)
Hangman's Acre . was a plot of land awarded to the Lords Hangman for agriculture use as part retainer for his duties.. Warkworth Castle was from early middle ages the main residence of the Lords of Warkworth later the Percys. They would retain a hangman. Any Executions would possibly be carried out on the Market Square or outside Castle. I have never come across a mention of a hangman ore Executions in any books . but I would think any carried out would be recorded in the Parrish(Church) records. Warkworth History Society may have info? The Hangman's Acre falls in to the Hermitage Group of Farms leased by Castle to local farmer.. Not sure if the Hangman had a home on Acre. but Birling Newtown North of River is oldest part of Warkworth. [ATTACH]Attachment 752[/ATTACH] single click to enlarge map.

That explains it then. That looks like my colouring in? have we been here before? :D

I was just about to say we have the immediate post medieval duke's map on here somewhere!

Coquet 03-01-2018 08:14 PM

I wonder why it has become a site of Antiquity on a par with the others mentioned above if it was just the Hangman's personal patch of land? The Victorian map makers don't even bother to include the Norman Church as an Antiquity, but this field makes the grade?

Coquet 03-01-2018 09:05 PM

We did mention some of this 2013:

http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/ambl...th+town&page=3


On the subject of the Warkworth fishing village, the survey in 1567 is very interesting.

As far I can interpret it, the village or settlement at the river mouth, east of the site of the 'New Town' was eventually abandoned due to meanderings and flooding of the river. Most of the occupants were fisherman and sailors. Occupation of the New Town was itself abandoned pre 1567, and the Duke allowed the land at the bottom of the hill on the North side of the castle to be occupied (around the church?)

In the last part the writer is pointing out how well the defensive situation of Warkworth could be, especially if a wall was constructed to the south between the loops of the river. He appears to mention a Kiln House on his wall site which assume actually existed in 1567???


A survey made about the year 1567 possesses, besides its intrinsic value, a special interest in the side-lights cast upon the district and it inhabitants. The violence of the Coquet in flood time, and its changing course, the old haven at the foot of the New-town, and the traditional settlement of the latter with fishermen, are noticed, as is the export trade of coal and grindstones. In the town the old tolbooth lay waste ; there had been a moot-hall, but even its site was forgotten, and for want of a more suitable place the manorial courts were customarily held within the parish church, though it was inconvenient for such a purpose ; the bridge masters (custodes pontis) still survived and possessed a freehold burgage as an endowment.

"At the first situation of the said borowghe, before the same was inhabited, yt was thought that in all the lordship of Warkworth there was not one so mete a place to be founde like the scyte of a borowghe as it is wher nowe the same is situate and builded for divers considerations, first beyng situate upon the said ryver Cockett wherein the sea hath course to ebbe and flowe, and also not farre from the haven or water mowthe, which at that tyme ranne forthe at on parcell of grounde nowe called th' old haven to the sea, and not farre from the iland Cockett, which was not onely one greate streinght for the haven diverse wayes but also betwext the said iland and the land, shippes, crayers or boates might and yet may well have place called a rode-stead to rydde in by auncre in saveftye unto such tyme the tyde did serve to goo into the said haven or abyde the wynde to serve them in the vyadge, in fishinge or else where, and for that at that tyme, as nowe, were also requisite was thought good for diverse causes those persons which sholde trade ther traffique by sea as maryners or fishermen (owners of shippes and merchaunts onely excepted) sholde inhabyte and dwell together, evene so was sett forthe one parcell of grounde for theme to inhabit upon, as this daye called the Newe-towne, and nowe, althoughe not inhabited, the grounde or rigge therof is nowe used and occupyed by the burgesses of Warkeworth (althoughe at the lord's will as herafter appeareth yet) in like sorte as they occupye their burrowe garthes, parcell of ther said browghe, and burgages, and as the same parte of that browghe which is betwixt the castell and the bridg was appoynted for th' inhabytinge of such as was merchaunts and other handye-crafts-mene, as well for the utteringe and sale of ther wares, as also for lodging of such persons as had or shold have occasion to resort they, even so suche as sholde occupye and trade the seas, dwellinge at the sayd place called Tenter-hewghe and the New-towne, sholde alwayes be nere the haven, and see ther ships and . . . . .. . . . [line missing]. . . . . . . . . Within this lordship, verie nighe the said castell and browghe, is diverse things to be had for the comodety of suche persons as used ther traffique or trade of gettinge ther livinge by sea, as coale mynes, grynde-stone quarells, with diverse others which neadeth not here to be resyted, besyde suche thinges as by th' industrye of persons which bathe knowledge therm might be had, and as the premyss did gyve unto suche as wer of gret wysedom at the begynnynge to plante ther borowes in such apte and mete places as this borowghe of Warkworth is sett and planted in. Evene so as yt ys all togethers as well to the lord's comodetye of that lordship, the welth of the inhabiters ther, the profite and comforts of th' inhabitors of the whole countrye, likewise we, consideringe our duety to God and neighbor, may be ashamed-not to go thorowe and accomplishe those things founde owte for our welth by suche as before us hath bene, but rather abolyshinge and neglectinge the same we permytt and suffer ourselves throughe idlenes to be noiated N and called th' abject of this lande and continually livinge in penury and distress.
The said borowghe of Warkworth is strongely situate in ane angle as befor. If the course of the sayd water of Cockett wer at the west syde of the sayd borowghe stayed, as yt easily may be, so that the grounde of the burgage ther nor of any place adjoininge to the same would not by vyolence of the sayd water be worne awaye, in likwyse the water having the course to the west syde yt sholde growe so deph, there shold be no passage ther, nor lykwyse one no parte of the back syde of the sayd borowghe yf the passage at the bridgesend were stopped, and also at Helsaye forde, and one stone walle and on good payre of gates in the same for the passadge from the . . . [illegible]. . . .towardes the sowth the sayd walle to be mad from the kilne howse to the castell moyte then sholde the tow" . . . [illegible]. . . .

Coquet 03-01-2018 09:10 PM

The mention of coal exports in 1567 also ties in nicely with the reference (elsewhere) to the potential construction of a coal exporting port on the Coquet in Elizabethan times. (scuppered due to funding failure I recall?)

leslie 03-01-2018 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coquet (Post 7200)
That explains it then. That looks like my colouring in? have we been here before? :D

I was just about to say we have the immediate post medieval duke's map on here somewhere!

Think it is possibly one of yours . I had it on file from previous post on this site . as shows old river course and Newtown Field names. I detect that area!

Coquet 04-01-2018 11:17 AM

On our new year's day walk up there we went as far as the beach and returned via the footpath in the field to the south side of the road. I did notice the soil in there is unusually dark and there are lots of bits and pieces of pottery, glass, etc and I picked up the stem of a clay pipe. (Although all looking Victorian to me.)

I thought the other side of the beach road was the new town, but the 17c duke's map shows it on both sides. I suppose that explains the dark soil when we were expecting sandy soil there. From Hodgson I believe the Warkworth villagers still had the right to work the Newtown land long after it was abandoned for some reason as well.

DHoward 08-08-2018 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coquet (Post 7183)
here's the image series completed 'til we find the old pictures.:D Had a walk along there today. Just needed a chainsaw to improve the view.


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-3a.jpg


http://www.coquetandcoast.co.uk/images/butts-4.jpg

Took the kids up here today, great views, could definately be better if there wasn't so much overgrowth though. Your chainsaw work seems to have done the job though, still a clear shot of the school from up there

linsdoune 04-11-2019 07:59 PM

Can anyone remember which houses have actually flooded in and around the Butts before the flood defences were put in place ?

hollydog 07-12-2019 09:56 PM

Yes I can, without stating the obvious, they were the ones immediately behind the new flood defences.
Last time was sept 2008.


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